A Rebuttal: As a Christian, suddenly I am a stranger in my own country, writes Julio Ribeiro

As a Christian, suddenly I am a stranger in my own country, writes Julio Ribeiro

I read this sincere lament of an Indian patriot. It broke my heart reading it. I saw this  posted on many sites and facebook pages and felt it needed a response to  put things in perspective.   Mr Ribeiro’s article sounds like Hindus suddenly started Breaking Bad due to Modiji.

Mr Ribeiro feels deeply about this issue as I am sure,  many other Indian Christians and non Christians  also  feel like him.

Yes..there is a problem that has been brewing in India for a while and its only going to get worse unless good Christians act. (“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing “- Edmund Burke) .       But this problem did not start with Modji getting elected. I would say Modji got many support from people like me who have been traditionally secular which was one of the reason Modji won with an overwhelming majority.

I suspect the problem really started around 20 years ago and amplified after Vajpayeeji was defeated sending the anti Hindu Catholic woman Sonia and her Anti Hindu cabal to power in spite of a very successful Vajpayee term making many Hindus feel like strangers in their own country. The loss of Vajpayee term in spite of his successful term emboldened many Anti Hindu forces in India.  When the political left have had total monopoly of power in India,Almost all institutions including the court system is filled  with these anti Hindu congress/Sonia sycophants squeezing the life out of Hindus in India.  In any case, let me come back to this at a later time. Let me first address Mr Ribeiros concerns.

Quote “Ghar wapsi”, the declaration of Christmas as “Good Governance Day”, the attack on Christian churches and schools in Delhi, all added to a sense of siege that now afflicts these peaceful people.

He laments about Ghar Wapsi.  Jews do something similar to  “Ghar wapsi”,  They too are losing their flock and instead of predating on others, all they are doing is convincing the Jews who have left their faith to come back.  They do not predate on Muslims, Hindus, Christians..They talk to their own Jewish people who left Judaism to  other faiths and explain to them why they need to support Judaism and the Jewish history to bring them back to the Jewish fold. If one is so convinced they have a right to convert others you have no choice but to concede to the idea of Ghar Wapsi. PERIOD! I have no sympathy for Ribeiro on this front. Or Mr Ribeiro, please support the BJP govt to make it illegal to predate on other religions which eliminate the need for flock stealing from one another.   If you want to have it both ways, You Mr Ribeiro are part of the problem.

On the issue of “good governance” day. Whelp! It does sound petty, doesn’t it.   You know what I think? I think Indian Christians are wonderful…. for the most part…But at the same time, they are tad spoiled brats.  They need to go around a bit to see what “Minorities” are entitled to in other countries.   And,    its time to ask this question. Why should 98% of the people who are not Christians be forced to celebrate the birth of Jesus in India when they could use that day for something useful for them like..er “Good Governance” day? (this is the kind of Qs that gets asked in the US when “minorities” ask for special dispensation)     Why not use a floating holiday for the 2% Christians? Like the Hindus do living in the US for Diwali or the Sikhs or the Muslims for Eid. Come to think of it, Is there a single Christian majority country in the world respecting  non Christianity to have a public Holiday? When the Jews have a Menorah or people say Happy Holidays (due to this time period being celebrated by Africans (Quanza) and Jews (Hanukkah) , many people cry “Christian persecution” in the west.  Israel, Japan, Turkey and many other countries  do not celebrate Christmas any more than all of the Christian majority countries celebrate Hindu holidays,  why should India?  No one wants to take Christmas away from Christians.  It would be cruel to deny the 2% Christian their Christmas Holiday. They are entitled to take their religious holiday and no one has the right to deny that to Christians.    This is about why should the other 98% be forced celebrate the birth of Jesus?  Hindus consider Jesus the way Christians of the world consider Rama or Krishna.  On the other hand, if respect for each others faith calls for a Holiday for all, then its time Christian majority countries start respecting major non Christian religion and have a holiday for Eid, Diwali and so on.  There is not a single Christian majority western country in the world that has a public religious holidays for any other world religion other than Christianity.  It’s as though the whole world has to give reverence to the Christian mythology over other mythologies. Yes..its all mythology ok? Lets not Bullshit each other…Mmmmmkk?   Mr Ribeiro, please write an editorial asking for your fellow Christians in other parts of the world to respect Hindus and Muslims and get them a Holiday too for their important religious Holiday?

On the Attacks on Christian schools and Churches, I have written in my other blog entries, Mr Ribeiro may want to talk to the Sikhs, Jains, Zoroastrians and Parsis as to, what they are doing right that they are not attacked.  Maybe the recent obnoxious proselytization and hate literature on Hindu deities may be be impetus for these attacks? Please see my editorial on “Religious Iconoclasm”

Christians have consistently punched above their weight — not as much as the tiny Parsi community, but just as noticeably. Education, in particular, has been their forte.

All True. Many Hindus have benefited from this and we Hindus ought to be grateful to the Christian community for this.  Ingratitude is the essence of vileness.    I would not have batted an eye if I read what you wrote, in the early 80s… It looks like you have been in a time warp.  You obviously don’t seem clued into what has been happening the last two decades. Why have the same Christian Institutions turned their backs on Hindus and have started discriminating against Hindus.  What changed all of a sudden?  Vellore Medical college is now 90% Christian, St. Stevens and Madras Christian college are now 60-70% Christian only. It went from 30% in the 80s to this? Using Tax payer payer money and public land to discriminate Hindus?  With these “religious” institutions using almost 90% funding from the public its not all that charitable really.    In fact, this is such a hostile posture. More importantly, what kind of society are these Christians going to live in post graduation? In the midst of Hindus or in some exclusive Christian Enclaves  in Kerala and other places in an incestuous social setup without the “corruption” and “pollution” of Hindus?   Another Caste system where Christians maintain social endogamy not unlike what the Brahmins once did…Why Mr Ribeiro? We had people from different faiths including Hindus going to these schools developing deep long term bonds and friendship that have lasted decades.. Not by converting one another..but by respecting one another’s faith or at least to pretend to tolerate them. What dark forces are at play to sabotage that?   I have explained it here in detail “The Slow cooking of Hindus in India”.

It is tragic that these extremists have been emboldened beyond permissible limits by an atmosphere of hate and distrust. 

On that we can agree Mr Ribeiro.  But which hate Group  is were we differ! The Neo convert evangelical hate groups or the Hindus who are reacting to the attitudes of the evangelical hate groups? The way you feel about the RSS and Sang parivar is how I feel about Christian Evangelicals Mr. Ribeiro.  They are like the Multi National Corporations from abroad stealing from the real minorities in India. It’s an unethical and fraudulent enterprise.   There are two sets of Christians in India.  What you talked about are the traditional Desi Christians who are endeared to me all my life.. They are no different than Hindus or Sikhs of India.  But I am talking about the neo Christian evangelicals  who are paid coolies of the MNC from abroad who you seem to have either ignored or clueless about. IF you feel these Christian Evangelicals are rights of Christians to run around doing their thing, I feel the RSS and Sang parivar doing Ghar Wapsi is the proper response! In fact I am disappointed that it is only at a token stage at this point. It needs to grow logarithmically to stop the onslaught from Christian evangelicals operating in India just to maintain par.  There is even a book titled “Post Hindu India”  with an ambitious plan of how India would look, after Hindus are converted to Christianity. This book is authored by  an evangelical professor at Osmania university. This is disturbing beyond words. In this sort of thing there aren’t going to be any winners.. This is a tragedy in the making.

What should I do? What can I do to restore my confidence?

You can do something about this heartburn Mr Ribeiro.  Preach the Indian Dharmic value of “Eishwar, Allah, Jesus” are all Gods to be respected. God is one, we call him by many names! This is  Bharat’s secular pluralistic creed!  The Indian social contract between one Indian to another. Time to evangelize that creed to India’s Christians once again! Indian Christians used to live by this Creed but many seem to have lost it during the last two decades.  Discourage the “Onward Christian soldier” posture of the crusades. That is the heart of the problem Mr. Ribeiro. That should restore not just your  confidence, it would restore mine too! And more importantly  neither of us would feel like strangers in our own country!

AND at the end of the day,  if you must  know, THIS IS HOW I REALLY FEEL ABOUT THIS WHOLE SHITTY  THING!

Indians had a social contract with one another.. God is one..We call him “Jesus, Allah and Ram”. many christians have violated this social contract! I have nothing but contempt for these contract breakers.

PS:  Its unlikely the anti Hindu “Sick-ular” English media would  have an editorial with rebuttals such as this.   The political left in India is the most undemocratic and anti Free speech monopolist in the world.  Instead they rather the Christians and Muslims in India  wallow in their own persecution complex  than bring some balance to these issues.  During the Supreme court judgement on Ayodhia was announced, the Indian Muslims wanted to settle the issue with Hindus…but the political left would not allow that to happen either. For them a maximalist position of humiliating the Hindus while stating the evilness of Hindus is their only option. Their very existence depends on the enmity of Indian Hindus with the Indian Christians and Indian Muslims.

 

CHRISTIANS ARE NOT UNDER ATTACK IN INDIA – Maria Wirth

 

There is probably no other country where members of other religions were as safe as in India. Hindus always gave shelter to those who were persecuted in their homelands. Jews gratefully acknowledged that India is the one country where they were never persecuted. Syrian Christians under their leader Thomas of Cana (Thomas the Apostle did not come to India) were given refuge in the 4th century. Parsis came in the 10th century to escape the Muslim invaders in Persia. And in 1959, some 100,000 Tibetan Buddhist refugees found shelter in India – only 12 years after the British had left the country, divided and poverty-stricken.

In contrast, the rich USA with an area three times the size and only a quarter of India’s population allowed only in 1991 one thousand Tibetan families to enter.

Indians never hesitated to accept those who were in trouble and who wanted to preserve their faith because they did not distinguish between human beings on religious lines. Their attitude was that all belong to one big human family and all have the same divine essence in them. For them “religion” was not an identity but a natural, ideal way of life.

So what happened that nowadays there is a lot of talk that Christians are under attack in India? Have Hindus become intolerant?

Another Rebuttal: Hindus don’t always have equality with minorities
The Nehruvian worldview denies individual identity and arbitrarily discriminates between Indian citizens

Rajeev Mant

Related Topics:

 Religious Iconoclasm.

The belief in, participation in, or sanction of destroying religious icons and other symbols or monuments, usually with religious or political motives.)

 .


23 thoughts on “A Rebuttal: As a Christian, suddenly I am a stranger in my own country, writes Julio Ribeiro”

  1. Sick minds could say anything,however it is interesting to see so many followers and so much of generalisation from both sides. Human beings should be respected as human beings first and only be identified by their religion for purpose of segregation. All Indians have contributed to the country’s progress and divisive issues by petty people should be discouraged by civil society instead of character assassination .

  2. All these attacks on Mr. Ribeiro have some things in common. There are virtually no specifics. Generalities, obfuscations, denials, insults, straw men and red herrings abound, like references to Christians who had achieved high positions in India, irrelevant references to Mother Theresa and Sonia Gandhi being described as a “Catholic” and brazen claims that there had been no attacks on Christians.

    In the meantime, I am reading all these angry, rhetorical, baseless responses to Mr. Ribeiro on the one hand and the following news reports on the other hand, one of an attack in my own hometown of Jabalpur, on a Catholic conference at the very high school I had attended, witnessed by CCTV and hundreds who were there:

    http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/bearing-the-cross-of-communal-discord/article1-1326535.aspx

    Quote:
    The first major instance of mass violence against Christians broke out in the southeastern districts of Gujarat in 1998, “the same year that the BJP came to power in that state,” notes a 1999 report of Human Rights Watch. The report titled ‘Politics by other means: Attacks against Christians in India’ noted that between December 25, 1998, and January 3, 1999, more than 20 churches were burned or destroyed and scores of tribal Christians were assaulted, robbed and targeted by angry mobs of Vishwa Hindu Parishad and Bajrang Dal activists who invaded their houses in the Dang and neighbouring districts of Gujarat. The report also said: “Although the highest number of incidents took place in Gujarat, attacks have also been reported in Maharashtra, Uttar Pradesh, Kerala, Bihar, Orissa, Madhya Pradesh, Haryana, Andhra Pradesh, Tamil Nadu, Karnataka, Manipur, West Bengal, and New Delhi.”
    Unquote.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/indiahome/indianews/article-3006811/Christians-demand-police-action-Hindu-extremists-attack-Jabalpur-church-terrorise-worshippers.html

    Quote:
    Members of a Hindu fundamentalist outfit stormed a church in Madhya Pradesh’s Jabalpur district terrorised people, and assaulted church members. The attack took place on Friday. The Hindu outfit alleged that members of the Christian community were converting Hindus.

    The police have lodged a complaint against the attackers and are taking the help of CCTV footage o arrest them.

    “We have registered cases against Dharma Sena leader Yogesh Agarwal, Raju Rai and others. Efforts are on to nab them.” H.C. Mishra, Superintendent of Police, Jabalpur said.
    Unquote.

    As a supporter of the BJP, I would like to conclude by warning Prime Minister Narendra Modi of the lessons from the BJP’s “India Shining” period which ended ignominiously when they were voted out due to, guess what, concerns about religious intolerance. If he is unwilling or unable to tamp down on his violent Hindu extremist wing, as only he can as a member of that wing, the vast majority of Hindus, who don’t like what is going on and demonstrated this in the recent New Delhi General Assembly elections, will vote them out again in 2019. This will completely waste the epic opportunity that India has given Narendra Modi to rehabilitate his tarnished image from the Godhra riots, and will destroy forever his legacy in history.

    1. There was no attack on the Indian patriot Mr. Ribeiro. It’s called Rebuttal. A counter argument. I know it’s difficult to understand for folks who are used only to one way conversation. But get with the program, in this internet decade.

      I would say 20 years ago 90% of Indians Christians were like Mr Riberio. Model citizens.. and if 90% of Indians turn out like these model Indian Christians who had the best of both worlds… values and character of Charitable Christians and the character of pluralistic Dharmic Indians (Christians who do not seek to convert and seek one world religion and turn fellow Indians into anti Hindus). India would be a glorious place.

      In fact majority of the people in this word are wonderful… And majority of Christians like majority of Hindus are wonderful.. So are the majority of the Muslims. The issue is not the majority of people who are not as active as the minority of douchebags who are very active.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1l4gGkPziA

      But what we have now in India are the new anti Hindu bigots. such as this and it is these kind of Christians who are growing in numbers. Who wants this shit? Not me. The wonderful Indian Christians I used to know are few these days.. All I see are anti Hindu Christians in India today.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ku-xr7gDeJs

      and this

      http://pink-pages.co.in/news-digest/tamil-nadu-ias-officer-wants-homosexuals-killed/

      And this

  3. Following my previous comments in this blog, as if to prove my point that Christians are, in fact, being attacked by fringe Hindu zealots, one of them takes a page out of Hitler’s playbook to suggest that all non-Hindus be sterilized: LOL!

    http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-impose-emergency-and-sterilise-muslims-christians-forcibly-says-hindu-mahasabha-leader-2076735

    Quote:
    A leader of Hindu Mahasabha on Saturday stoked a controversy saying Muslims and Christians must undergo sterilisation to restrict their growing population which was posing a threat to Hindus.

    “The population of Muslims and Christians is growing day by day. To rein in this, Centre will have to impose emergency, and Muslims and Christians will have to be forced to undergo sterilisation so that they can’t increase their numbers,” vice president of All India Hindu Mahasabha, Sadhvi Deva Thakur told reporters in Jind.
    Unquote.

    1. Most Hindus would not subscribe to this this dude..but his anger is understandable/

      Here is why its understandable.

      The Growth of Islam and Christianity is a threat to Hinduism since the two religious doctrine is to wipe out Kafirs and non believers,

      Hindus would not have any problem if Parsies, Buddhists,Sikhs, Jains, Jews, Shintos grow in numbers since none of these folks are anti Hindus theologically. None of these religions try to “save” the non believers to convert and turn them against their own kith and kin (theological doctrine)

      If and when Christians do not wish to convert Hindus to Christianity and give assurance to Hindus they are not out to convert the majority of Indians to Christianity then maybe,,,the Hindus would not feel so threatened.

      The onus is on the predator to reform.

  4. I’m sure Hitler also thought that Jews were predators.

    If Hindu philosophy is so attractive why are you so afraid of what other philosophies Hindus may be attracted to?

    What is the incentive for a Dalit to remain a Hindu and be spit upon?
    You obviously have never experienced being called “untouchable”.

    People in a free society should be able to speak freely about their beliefs and others should have the option of joining them or not.

    The issue is coercion. Muslims and misguided Christians used coercive measures in the past and some still do, which I oppose, something you have no way of knowing.

    This is why I have no problem with the ghar wapsi program as long as it is conducted under the law, and does not use coercive measures.

    1. No the Christians of Germany wanted to wipe out the Jews for two reason.. 1) Punish the children for the alleged sins of the fathers “Jews killed mythological Jesus 2) Due Martin Luther’s anti semetic rantings on his book “Jews and their lies”

      Ghar Wapsi is too little too late..they need to ratchet it up a 1000 fold to combat the evangelical jerks.

  5. DC, you don’t even seem to know who killed Jesus – it was Romans, not Jews, even though they instigated it.

    The Nazis were white supremacists and considered Jews as vermin to be exterminated, regardless of what “reasons” you may want to believe.

    Jesus was not mythological as documented in the new book, Killing Jesus, based on contemporary historical reports by Romans and Jews. There are even contemporary reports that the cave-tomb he was placed in after being brutally tortured and killed by crucifixion was empty three days later and no body has ever been found.

    What you can dispute is whether He is the Son of God which is a Christian faith belief. Similarly, Hindus believe in hundreds of Gods.

    Ghar wapsi is what it is. I have no problems with it as long as it is done within the law.

    1. It was all about trying to convert the Jews to Christianity. CONVERSION CONVERSION. The desire to convert others to you own BS…THAT IS THE EVIL!

      http://www.nobeliefs.com/luther.htm

      Martin Luther’s dirty little book:
      On the Jews and their lies
      A precursor to Nazism
      by Jim Walker

      Although Luther did not invent anti-Jewishness, he promoted it to a level never before seen in Europe. Luther bore the influence of his upbringing and from anti-Jewish theologians such as Lyra, Burgensis, (and John Chrysostom, before them). But Luther’s 1543 book, “On the Jews and their lies” took Jewish hatred to a new level when he proposed to set fire to their synagogues and schools, to take away their homes, forbade them to pray or teach, or even to utter God’s name. Luther wanted to “be rid of them” and requested that the government and ministers deal with the problem. He requested pastors and preachers to follow his example of issuing warnings against the Jews. He goes so far as to claim that “We are at fault in not slaying them” for avenging the death of Jesus Christ. Hitler’s Nazi government in the 1930s and 40s fit Luther’s desires to a tee.

      So vehemently did Luther speak against the Jews, and the fact that Luther represented an honorable and admired Christian to Protestants, that his written words carried the “memetic” seeds of anti-Jewishness up until the 20th century and into the Third Reich. Luther’s Jewish eliminationist rhetoric virtually matches the beliefs held by Hitler and much of the German populace in the 1930s.

      No apologist can claim that Martin Luther bore his anti-Jewishness out of youthful naivete’, uneducation, or out of unfounded Christianity. On the contrary, Luther in his youth expressed a great optimism about Jewish conversion to Christianity. But in his later years, Luther began to realize that the Jews would not convert to his wishes. His anti-Jewishness grew slowly over time. His logic came not from science or reason, but rather from Scripture and his Faith. His “On the Jews and Their Lies” shows remarkable study into the Bible and fanatical biblical reasoning. Luther, at age 60 wrote this dangerous “little” book at the prime of his maturity, and in full knowledge in support of his beliefs and Christianity.

      1. In a free society people should be able to choose any religion they want. What is wrong is to coerce anyone to change their religion.

        Why are you having such a hard time understanding this??

    2. Note to Mario: I appreciate your response and difference of opinion. But please hold your ad hominem attacks. (I should hold mine too.. I slipped a couple of times. I apologize for that)

    1. I need to look up that Jabalpur. I don’t have all the fact as yet.. so for now I make no comment on that “alleged” incident.

Leave a Reply